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« Comment to FCC: We Need More Captioned Phone Service | Main | ‘The Cause of My Life’ Inside the fight for universal health care. »

July 21, 2009

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Comments

Stephen Drake

I have two blog entries on the Singer essay:

http://notdeadyetnewscommentary.blogspot.com/2009/07/peter-singer-in-ny-times-disabled-lives.html

This entry includes additional comments on Singer and links to other bloggers writing about the essay:

http://notdeadyetnewscommentary.blogspot.com/2009/07/singer-plagiarizing-jerry-lewis-and.html

diora

Dear Pete Singer, Your lack of sensitivity is your greatest disablity. It by far exceeds any physical or mental one. I take great pity on you. ~

Ralph

In my case, I've was labeled "disabled" without my permission, in fact I was trying to stop this NONSENSE. Yes, we are spending incountable amounts with NONSENSE. But NO, the government, in it's immense stupidity, would rather pay YOUR dollars ($85,000/yr) to institutionalize me, instead of finding a way to look at me. If we can stop and listen, instead of the horrid, ugly, evil voices that are heard by the media, the government, the employers, and insipid writers like this, we could ALL live in a productive way.
This is stance is so ugly, it's like saying we don't have enough food to feed everyone. I think we all know that that is stupidity. We have enough food, we have enough jobs, we have enough air, but when we are allowed to give space in a "disability" website to read sad, pathetic "solutions" we are ALL HURTING FOREVER!!!
Shame on this writer, shame on the New York Times, shame on this website!
AGAIN, COULD SOMEONE IN THIS "ADVOCACY" WEBSITE GET OFF OF HIS/HER MENTAL DERRIERE AND COMMUNICATE WITH ME!!! (You have my e-mail address). MY SITUATION IS DESPERATE AND IMMEDIATE AND I NEED AN DISABLED ADVOCATE (not a government advocate), IF THIS WEBSITE IS NOT JUST MORE SMOKE AND MIRRORS PUBLISHED BY THE GOVERNMENT TO KILL ALL OF US!

Cindy Sue Causey

Some of us, an ostracized few because of, have been trying very hard for quite some time to bring a number of particularly related things to people's attention.. It's been very lonely..

The White House :: They must be held accountable.. They, at this point, are now *openly* allowing this to happen.. For example, where is Kareem Dale's *public* outrage at, denouncement of the Peter Singers of the World..?????

To this Keyboard, it comes as no accident that people with disabilities are being left conveniently warehoused where they can be, well, controlled just when *so many* are becoming so beautifully empowered, especially the last few years..

It is my not-so-Humble-O that it's time to hit this hard for the Segregation topic that the [White House's] institutional bias can't help but be called, the *exact* same way that other minorities have done in the past.. Am feeling pretty safe in saying that those committing that travesty against PWDs' civil rights will start paying "just a little beet more" attention then..

Warmest wishes from Talking Rock..

PS.. :waving: to Stephen.. MY HERO..! :))

Donnie

My elderly mother was put on life support for pneumonia in 1998, 2000 and 2002. She passed away peacefully in 2004, in her own bed, at the age of 94. If health care had been rationed for the elderly who were seriously ill, she would have died in 1998. She would have been robbed of 6 good years of her life. She was in fairly good health both physically and mentally at the end. How on earth can someone say an older person's life is not valuable, and health care for them should be rationed. That is totally inhumane, and a very sick way of thinking. Perhaps, people with such apathy for the elderly, will feel a bit differently when they become a senior citizen. Suddenly, an older persons life will be viewed as valuable, after all. And perhaps, it will be too late, and senior life will be cut short due to health care rationing.

Elisabeth Ellenbogen

The problem is NOT TOO MANY PEOPLE IN NEED HEALTH CARE!

The real problems: Mismanagement and lack of health insurance!

People who are too poor to have an ongoing relationship with a "family doctor" line up in emergency rooms among people who had an accident. This is not good diagnostic care, has minimal follow up, so the same poor person arrives again in the emergency room for a treatable illness that should have been resolved up front.

Another problem is lack of communication among physicians and patients. Several doctors run almost identical tests in short succession. These could be spaced according to genuine medical need.

Lack of knowledge about good health maintenance and sound nutrition causes wide spread treatable conditions like obesity and lack of muscle strength. Consequence: An even greater need for medical intervention.

Then of course there is obvious warehousing of older or disabled human beings in residential settings. We need to build accessible apartments and/or houses where medically fragile people can reside. Combined with some household help and attendant care the cost is much cheaper than publicly subsidized residential facilities.

As a society we need to have the will to do what is necessary for ourselves and our peers!

Reality Check

All I have to say is-- These are not the articles we should be focusing on this national network for disability advocates. I am ashamed to call myself part of the disability community for taking part in complaining about such minor things as this mans piece of academic work. He is writing a black and white Cost Benefit Analysis where you have to make dicey calls in order to give yourself numerical values to work with. None of you obviously know anything about Economics if you are insecure enough to take offense to a piece of writing. Maybe instead of attacking everyone else-- we should look at his arguments as a way for us to become stronger. He makes a good debate don't you think? If there are so many people out there who are actively searching for cures for their disabilities- doesnt that give you the impression that they feel their lives are less good with the disability than it was without it? Maybe we should be talking to these people and giving them some disability pride workshops rather than pointing fingers at the man who merely pointed it out to us.

John Smith

and how are they going to pay for all of this "healthcare for all? By forcing young people to pay in for health care they don't want to buy and don't need. Should't you have the right to only buy the insurance you need? This is just going to become like Social Seucrity. A big Ponzi scheme where they collect the money and the first ones in will get coverage and then it will start running out and they will have to go into borrowing to cover it and how much longer will the Chinese buy US treasuries?
Haha. You can't let the govt run anything!!!

Michael

Peter Singer would have fit perfectly in Hitler's Germany. He and his utilitarian bioethicist colleagues are a pox on humanity.

From Dean Koontz: "Utilitarian bioetchics as portrayed in One Door Away From Heaven is unfortunately not a figment of my imagination, but a real threat to you and to everyone you love. This philosophy embodies the antihuman essence of fascism, expresses the contempt for individual freedom and for the disabled and the frail that has in the past marked every form of totalitarianism. One day our great universities will be required to redeem themselves from the shame of having honored and promulgated ethicists who would excuse and facilitate the killing of the disabled, the weak, and the elderly."

Mr. Koontz is a far more eloquent writer than myself. He is, by no means, an alarmist. 'Nuff said.

Nancy Cotterill

What we think about Health Care Reform

This recent New York Times article says "some form of health care rationing is both inescapable and desireable..."some will object that this discriminates against people with disabilities. If we return to the hypothetical assumption that a year with quadriplegia is valued at only half as much as a year without it, then a treatment that extends the lives of people without disabilities will be seen as providing twice the value of one that extends..."

Yes, read that again. I'm especially fond of ...."a year with quadriplegia is valued at only half as much as a year without it." If this is the "valuable" health care rationing which is "desirable" where will it end? I am appalled. After decades of hard-fought gains where disabled people have moved out of the shadows to make huge gains in employment, accessibility and power, we are being told that when it comes down to the basics of the value of life, the disabled person is less valuable and therefore will not be given the same level of beneifits a non-disabled person might be afforded.

Yet, people with disabilities are overwhelmingly backing President Obama's new health-care reform efforts. And surprisingly, those I have talked to are not exactly chasing down the details on the 1,000 page bill that was signed in the House of Representatives without so much as a thorough read-through.

Is ANY change a positive change? I don't think we can come even close to saying that. Health care change needs to be critically examined, and thoughtfully enacted. it needs to have the input of the entire community. I cannot even imagine a system which insitutes some kind of sliding scale that places a Third Reichian value on a human life. That's not the America I live in. God, I hope it never is.
-Nancy Cotterill,
Editor People On Wheels

Sherrie F. Eugene, Oregon

I'm severely disabled but I'd sure like to come eye to eye with this **** and show him my worth!

NC disability advocate

In this day and age, I cannot begin to relate to the ignorant and unrealistic rationale used here.
How do people come up with such ludicrous thoughts, perceptions and concepts?
I am all for freedom of thought, freedom of speech and expression of such - but geez! Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth closed!

Patricia Banks BMsc

Jesus was the first example God sent to save
everyone 'by becoming one of them'. Ignorant
individuals who cannot see the advantages of
what can be gained has the blind leading the
blind indeed. One who has been in the trial
and tribulation involved with being disabled
has so much of an advantage to better human
potential. Perhaps it is the opposite, and
we should deny care to those who have never
had any adversities. We'd all benefit from a more compassionate society and all happier
people who appreciate their good fortune! :)

Kendall Corbett

Under Singer's Schema, do we value the life of a quadriplegic veteran higher than we would a quadriplegic high school dropout or college professor? In Singer's world, who draws the line, and where is it drawn? I have had a disability my entire life, and a more significant physical disability for the last 32 years (two thirds of my life). In the first 16 years, I was not what Singer would define as a contributing member of society, although I had the potential to become a contributing member of society. Since my injury at 16, I have graduated from high school, obtained a University degree, married, bought a house (and countlerss other consumer goods) and become a taxpayer. By nearly any definition, a "contributing member of society." Yet under the guise of Utilitarian Bioethics, I am defined as a "non-contributing member of society" merely because I have a disability. Health care rationing is already happenning in the United States by pricing it beyond the means of a significant percentage of the population; even those with health care are often unable to obtain necessary pieces of assistive technology, because insurers hold that a device is "not medically necessary," or is a "luxury." I am presently attempting to purchase (through my insurance provider), a wheelchair that would not only improve my overall health, but make it safer to perform many activities of daily living

Marguerite Arnold

When the organized disabilities community....and that includes the organization that runs this website, refuses to take seriously committed activists like myself who are taking on both the feds and Congress right now, along with one of the Mayors of the biggest cities in the country right now, what can you expect? It's time for us to fight like hell, not say "thanks for the breadcrumbs" which the Democrats are going to give us and in fact already have. For those of you fed up with the "compromise" and "diplomacy" of Washington based groups who are really no better than those they criticize (I have worked in DC for more than a decade and the Beltway mentality is like poison) then please get in touch. I need to build a grassroots coalition ready to go kick some ass. And we have the perfect opportunity to do it.

For those who do not see my name and address below on this link, check out my website, soon to be moved to a self hosted site for maximum flexibiity and real webcount, but its getting attention, as is my plan for economic development, jobs, healthcare and housing.

The White House doesn't intimidate me. I kicked their asses when I was 27. This one is easy, it's just that the disabilities community is so downtrodden it doesn't know how to play power politics and does things like calling a meeting with a junior white house staffer "historic" which is BS.

The White House website isn't even 508 compliant. Trust me, they just walked into a gunfight with a knife. And I've got (figuratively speaking of course) an army of machine guns.

lauren

this article is discusting shame on the writer, shame on the new york times for posting this discusting article. this article should not have been posted.

Philip Kirschner

As Dr. Singer explains and justifies this process, " Some will object that this discriminates against people with disabilities. If we return to the hypothetical assumption that a year with quadriplegia is valued at only half as much as a year without it, then a treatment that extends the lives of people without disabilities will be seen as providing twice the value of one that extends, for a similar period, the lives of quadriplegics" does he also feel the mentally ill or genetically unbalanced are not deserving of life?

Peter Singer, one of the most controversial figures in our nation, is equating a value on any life. It could be said Singer, a man with no faith in a higher power, could possibly be considered a eugenicist. I recall a regime in Germany that was tried for war crimes against humanity for these very same action's he is calling for and advoacating.

It's obvious that heir singer, does not believe in god at all. When a society is allowed to make judgments that life is not worth living, it shows that the society calling for these practices is doomed to fail and is in decline. Rome and NAZI germany, both states engrained in facist thought failed. Perhaps, singer should be considered a real war criminal and by thought guilty of war crimes against humanity?

Where is justice singer?

E.I. Burns

What do you mean, we have to ration health care, Mr. Singer?
We already are rationing health care.
Those who can afford it get it.
Those who can't don't.
If that's not rationing, I don't know what is!
30,000 people a year die prematurely because they are overtreated for their generous dollars.
20,000 more die because they suffer from treatable but neglected conditions as a result of no health insurance!
That's 50,000 every year.
Almost Vietnam every year.
We have rationed health care such that there is overtreatment and undertreatment.

Ric Edwards

Marguerite - where have you (or I) been?? And why do the JFA folks, Marca Bristo's, of the "disability community" not have your info out in front? I just spent too much time reading your stuff and am thrilled to find another p/w/d who is not being sucked in by the lies of this administration. If you need my "gun" lemeno.
Ric

Sherrie F. Eugene, Oregon

Aw Ric, the never-ending story and growth of that long pointy finger is getting so repetitiously old already! We may be persons with disabilities here but WE are NOT stupid! Exactly who is it that YOU and Marguerite think you are kidding to insult others with shoddy attempts at trying to only stroke your own selves here anyway?

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